An in depth interview chat with Catherine Toolan –Managing Director, Diageo Irish Brand Homes

In conversation with Niamh Wade, Go Wild Magazine

You literally had just started the role a month before the pandemic hit so had your big plans in what you envisaged and suddenly everything changed and how did that affect everything?

It was such an incredible job to be successful to get this role, I mean the Guinness Storehouse is probably the pinnacle of brand experiences around the world, not just in Ireland and I am passionate about representing Ireland having lived internationally for almost fifteen years.

I lived in China for ten years and London and South America so representing Ireland is something I have always been passionate about.  To have the opportunity to then work for the Guinness Storehouse, Ireland’s leading visitor attraction with 1.8 million visitors and with Paul Carty, my predecessor, having been here for twenty years, it was an amazing opportunity but certainly a little bit daunting cos I was thinking “oh my God, how am I going to make a difference in this hugely successful business” that had been so successful as a tourist attraction but also for the brand of course.

I then started the job, and the doors were closed, and we started with zero and in my first year we only traded with seventy-eight days and then last year we traded for a little bit more, and thankfully now we have been open since July and on an upward trajectory so that’s really, really exciting but I never in my wildest dreams imagined that I would have the start that I did.

And in one way I think, whilst I wish it was a little bit easier, its also given me a chance to really get to know the business and for us here at the Guinness Storehouse to think a little differently about our future and about our future role as a brand experience.

We literally found our lights off and no audience for the first year, no visitors because 93% of our visitors pre-pandemic were international and 7% were domestic, so when we looked at the insights even from the domestic visitors they considered us a little too touristy and perhaps they weren’t actually really clear about what the Guinness Storehouse delivered as an experience and sometimes, you are never a tourist in your own city, so we had to kind of take those preconceptions and insights and really challenge ourselves to think about how we could be relevant to the domestic market and we have learned so much from that and its allowed us to re-position ourselves in a way that we are now.

We don’t want to be a binary experience either for tourists or locals, we want to be an experience that is relevant for everyone because of course Guinness is a wonderful drink and is relevant for everyone, everybody has an opinion on Guinness.

Top Three Positives of Covid  

Allowing us to re-think our proposition and our importance in terms of culture and music and bringing that to life and our role in the community, so being able to give artists a space to either perform or to either curate here in the Guinness Storehouse.

We hosted the ‘Creatives Against Covid’ exhibition in 2020 and that was extremely successful as it allowed people to think about us a bit differently. Last year we opened with the gates painted for one of the first times with Aches, Aches is an incredible muralist, and we came together and collaborated to create something that was special, not just for the Guinness Storehouse but also on the gates outside. We worked based on the proverb “Ní neart go cur le chéile” which means together we are stronger so outside on the gates was ‘Together we are Stronger.

Indeed, we tied that into a merchandise collaboration where we had a retail product and the profits from that went to charity so that kind of stuff was something that we probably did but maybe not as vibrantly as we have done in the last year and that’s been really important for us and it is something we will continue to do.

We also worked with Other Voices who are a wonderful music collaboration lead by Philip King and he talks about the furthest point West on the Atlantic Ocean that you can get in Dingle but being able to bring that to life here in the Guinness Storehouse at Christmas, to bring that home to a Dublin Audience or at least a Dublin location was incredible and reaching out when people couldn’t get home in that first year, and being a beacon and Guinness has always been such an important part of the history and culture of Ireland that being a beacon for people who weren’t able to come home through music and art and through culture working with Tourism Ireland was really powerful.

This also allowed us from a digital and technology perspective to really think about things differently so we very quickly established our e-commerce stores here in the Guinness Storehouse and also for Roe and Co our wonderful whiskey, which we are building and also our pop-up stores so from a retail perspective we took the Guinness Storehouse on tour and brought it out to locations in Dublin and throughout the country for a Christmas period.

We also did an awful lot of virtual events and work to monetise those in a world where people were probably a little bit tired of Zoom but bringing that connectivity from the archive and the history to life through our products, through Guinness, through Foreign Extra Stout and food pairings, it was really exciting so with all of that stuff we were certainly able to think differently.

Growth of the Domestic Market

As a result of Staycations, we saw huge numbers grow in the domestic market and It is going to be really interesting to learn how we can be relevant for a domestic market especially maybe as people want to get back to travelling.

In our first year, we had over 78,000 visitors and the majority of those were domestic so that was amazing and even after last year since opening in July we are now at 35% of a domestic audience.

It’s not just about coming to the Guinness Storehouse for the visitor experience and that’s an important bedrock of our future success because international tourism for the Guinness Storehouse and Ireland is so relevant, but it’s also that sense of coming for occasions or coming for music or culture.

We would love to be able to be in the considerations for domestic people who are coming, wondering what’s cool in Dublin and they are thinking of coming to the Guinness Storehouse or Open Gate Brewery or to one of our smaller brand homes.

Main Attraction of the Guinness Storehouse? 

The most important thing for all of us and tourism and certainly here in the Guinness Storehouse is to understand your consumer and understand the insights that you get from consumer behaviour. a For us, we have to look at that in two ways; we have to look at the international market and we have to look at the domestic market and what’s so incredibly exciting for an international visitor coming to the Storehouse is that Guinness is probably one of the strongest global brands in terms of recognition and coming to the Guinness Storehouse brings it to life in a way that nowhere else does in the world.

We immerse people in, minimum forty-five and up to two hours of, an experience bringing to life the amazing culture and the sense of place that’s here at St. James’s Gate where we had a very vibrant and innovative Arthur Guinness signing a 9,000-year lease because he was so passionate about the success of Guinness and how unique Guinness is and we are only 263 years into that 9,000-year lease so the best is yet to come!

And bringing that to life in the three pillars of Guinness, communion, goodness and power, so that sense of coming here to share the stories of the history of Guinness whether it be through the brewing and the four core ingredients and sustainability, it’s a really sustainable beer with just hops, water, barley and yeast, so bringing that to life but also bringing to life transport and how Guinness played such a key role in Dublin in terms of its social role.

Arthur Guinness was one of the first people to create social housing in this area and to make the lives of the people who work for Guinness better, so those stories are interesting.

We have an incredible archive with thousands of employee records, so again international visitors love to come back and connect and understand is there a family connection here and then as you go up to the advertising floor, and as you know Guinness advertising is so famous so getting to see that and hear a little bit about that is special.

From a domestic visitor what we found is nobody in Ireland needs to be told how to pour a pint of Guinness, in fact, they know intimately what that two-part pour is but helping them understand the deeper history of Guinness and really experiencing that with our team and our people bringing those richer stories to life has been incredible.

There’s so much to do and see and also that sense of occasion so at the moment we have the Six Nations in the building, and we have a fantastic rugby simulator and we are going to have the Six Nations trophy in the building, so that sense of coming for something and coming for an occasion, not just coming to the Storehouse is really important for us and the future, bringing that to life.

We have just finished celebrating Lunar New Year, which has a special place in my heart because I spent so long in China. And of course, we are looking forward to a wonderful re-opening with St. Patrick’s festival.

Should Moore Street be re-vitalised as a cultural quarter or Market?

I think retaining culture is so important and the DNA of a city in the past but also bringing that forward into the future, you can’t just live in the past and a world of what has just happened in the past and nothing else but it is a fine balance between how you rejuvenate areas and it’s important to regenerate, it’s a city and as a city centre we have a lot of work to do to build back the reputation of Dublin.

Dublin city centre is a great place to come and visit and that’s not just from a tourism perspective its is also from office workers coming back, business conferences, tourists coming back who add so much value, so across that city proposition when we are out in the world marketing Ireland internationally what’s going to be important is what’s the perception of Dublin?

What can I do in Dublin? Making sure we stay value for money, making sure we have the right balance proposition of hotels and restaurants and cultural spaces so it is always a fine line to make sure that that balance is right, but I have no doubt that Dublin City Council and all the stakeholders involved in that will make the best decisions with the information that they have.

 Is the Guinness Storehouse a family-friendly attraction?

Positive drinking is a really important pillar of Diageo’s social, economic, environmental and governance goals that our society 2030 goals really call out positive drinking as something that’s important in terms of bringing that to life.

We don’t actively target people under the age of eighteen at all. We do still have families that come because you have an amazing experience at the top of the building where you are bringing to life views across the entire city and we accommodate everybody that comes to visit us but we probably are based more on an audience that is a little bit older.

For example, during Covid-19 we found an awful lot of younger people coming to have a date night and finish in Gravity Bar because the views are so beautiful and you are getting probably the best views of the city, so it’s a really big important focus for us to focus on the positive messaging that we get out about being drink aware and that’s a critical pillar for us.

Why is the Gravity Bar named the Gravity Bar?

We talk about sustainability and regeneration and this building is an epitome of that because it was an old hop store and it’s been regenerated into this beautiful experience that probably nobody even expected would get to the levels of success with 1.8 million visitors.

If you look at the steel structure, it is built like the shape of a pint so you start with the narrow bit at the bottom and then you end up at the top of the bar and that’s kind of the gravity piece because it was built in the shape that it is almost like traversing the top of the city, but not quite sitting on anything but it is the top of the pint of Guinness.

More recently and lucky for us, we just finished an incredible 20 million investment to build the second Gravity Bar so we now have a figure of eight at the top. That was really helpful during covid because we were able to make sure we could seat everybody, and they could have a really amazing experience and it is going to help in terms of our capacity as we get back to a level of normality.

Do you like Guinness?

I love Guinness and its just incredible to work for a brand that means so much and having lived internationally, from my personal perspective, and as much as working for Guinness, that idea of having a pint of Guinness if you are sitting in Beijing or Rio or somewhere it really helps to place you back home, that connection, that communion that breaking bread, certainly always brought me home.

So yes, I love Guinness and I love some of the variants, you know looking at the glassware we have to serve Guinness and that’s really important for us that people feel that Guinness is not just this one pint of Guinness and that’s it, there are loads of other ways to drink and taste and saviour Guinness, including Guinness 00 and in terms of positive drinking you can now have a wonderful Guinness experience with the two-part pour which is no alcohol so that has been incredibly successful and incredible innovation to create a product that is so unique but still so similar to our iconic Guinness.

Re the New London Centre

We already have a wonderful brand home in Baltimore, in Maryland, we are also opening in Chicago next year, and Chicago is the heart of so many associations with Ireland and of course with Guinness, and coming up for Saint Patrick’s Day with dying the river green in Chicago so that is always an important part of the bigger portfolio which is here at the Guinness Storehouse, the largest brand home and how we bring those to life in smaller brand homes across the world.

I think the London one is so exciting because its right in the heart of a wonderful part of London, Covent Garden, it’s the beating heart of London and we all work very closely together to bring our brand homes to life and help and support our colleagues so it’s a really exciting time for us as we are looking to expand into brand experiences and how they come to life.

Can you tell us a bit about your Role?

I think my role is very much about making sure that we have the right team and the right resources and the right people in place to celebrate the opportunity we must bring this to life and work with Diageo which is an incredible company.

It is very progressive; it is very focused on diversity and inclusion and bringing that to life. It is very focused on sustainability and environmental goals, so for me, that’s probably some of the stuff that I’m working on, that, we together as a big global business that you don’t see every day but is making a big difference in the world.

My colleague Grainne Wafer, who is the first female Global Brand Director for Guinness has a really amazing ambitious portfolio about bringing to life the opportunity for women and diversity to come to life, not just in our own company which we are really focused on, but working with agencies and working behind the camera as well as in front of the camera, so I do a lot on that side but most importantly.

I think my job is to be the custodian of whatever the next number of years I am lucky enough to work here of the Guinness legacy and keep that alive in a way that resonates with the local community and the international business and making sure our team love coming to work every day as I do.

It is very much about inspiring people to be their best and not being limited by anything because working with Diageo and working for Guinness means you have incredible scope to dream big and think big and bring that to life, so that’s incredibly exciting.

Any areas that you would like to change?

I think in brand experiences, for us, and bringing digital technology to life in a way that gives consumers a deeper, more immersive experience at times if consumers want, because sometimes visitors just want to go through the experience and have alight touch but other people might want to get deeper into some of the stories and some of the technical brewing details so being able to bring that balance of a brilliant experience always led by people, real people but using technology to enable that in a way is something that I am really focused on and I think there’s a fair bit of work to be done in that for all of us across the tourism sector and I know it is something that Failte Ireland are keen to invest in so being very clear about our consumers and what they want and understanding data and how we can actually use that to make the experience better.

For example, so leaning into what consumers want before they come and helping them understand how we can deliver that and connecting with them when they leave so you create that emotional connection for maybe a longer period.

I think that sense of augmented reality and user experience and how that is going to come to life for experiences is really exciting and we are only scratching the surface so we’d love to be playing a lead role in how that transforms the experiences but always keeping that personal perspective and that sense of the people.

This is one of the things that’s most important to us here in the Guinness Storehouse is the stories and the people and how we bring that to life and it is one of the things that’s the most successful element of the Guinness Storehouse, it’s our unique selling point is our team making a difference every day to people’s lives.

Our Vision

The important thing for us in the future is to become a culturally vibrant hub that showcases the magnetic and inclusive soul of Guinness and its role in modern Irish sociability and that we appeal to locals and internationals alike, as both are important. And that’s our new vision and we are really excited to bring that to life.